IMO, @tshirtman's point is key: “investments” are, in fact,gambling.

AFAIK, I'm the only #FOSS geek to spend time¹ as a part-time pro #poker player, so (hopefully clueful) rant follows:

Most who've never gambled for a living don't yet grok (to quote _Hunger Games_) “when the odds are forever in your favor” vs. (what we call) “bad bets”.

Pro gamblers seek games where they're “the favorite”. Lotteries & (most) casino games have a “house edge” & are “bad bets”…(1/6)

Cc: @BathysphereHat @finner

…many pro #poker players become investment bankers b/c the principles are the same. Wall Street is, indeed, a casino, where the wealthy have a “house edge”.

Any form of gambling — Wall Street, running a casino, or playing poker — one needs chumps (called “fish” in poker) to show up & play the game w/ no concept that others in the game have an edge over them. The sardonic _Hunger Games_ quote is apt, becuase if you're not from District 1/2, the odds are, of course, *never* in your favor…(2/6)

… for me, I eventually got disgusted that, as a pro poker player, I was the “house” for folks who didn't understand math. I was once¹ in a #poker game at Foxwoods casino (in CT, when I lived in MA) circa 2004.

A guy won a pot & he said “Now I have enough to get the diapers.” We all asked him what he meant, & he said: “my wife sent me out to by diapers 3 hrs ago, & I came here instead.” I thought he was lying at the time, but after he lost all his money & left, I realized maybe he wasn't.…(3/6)

… ultimately, @silvermoon82 is totally right that gambling does impact the same brain centers that some substances do & addiction is common.

If you're a pro #poker player or otherwise make a surplus in the gambling industry (which, BTW, includes Wall Street), *you are* the same as a heroin dealer (or, at least, a liquor store owner). I admit I occasionally still play #poker when I'm traveling & have an evening free, but doing it as my primary source of income sounds disgusting to me now … (4/6)

… I do sometimes buy lottery tickets.

e.g., rn #Powerball cash-payout ($826.4 mil) exceeds odds of winning (1 in ≈584mil — note ½ the odds b/c a ticket costs $2). That's a farce b/c odds don't factor in chance of a split btw winners (ie, N people *can* buy the exact same numbers), but while usually a $2 ticket is worth ≤ $1, my back-of-envelope calculation is rn a $2 ticket is “worth” ≈ $1.40 in expected value, so I take the gamble b/c of the NGO donations I could do with that money … (5/6)

@evan Are we talking just gambling with money, or are we including metaphore?

… anyway, @evan polled on something of my interest.

¹I worked previously for FSF & SFLC. I wasn't paid enough to make ends meet in Boston-area/NYC-area (respectively).

Only way I could make ends meet was to play #poker on weekends

It was a *grueling* way to make a living: only job where you show up $3k in your pocket, work the whole day, & leave with $1k in your pocket (on a given day, of course).

I made roughly $25/hr playing poker, but games were easier then for various reasons.

(6/6)

@bkuhn I had forgotten about this aspect of your past. I've met a few other people in tech who've supported themselves with online and offline poker. It's really interesting!

@bkuhn I have a question for you: I really liked "Bringing Down the House", the book about the MIT blackjack team that made pretty decent money.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bringing_Down_the_House_(book)

There's also a pretty good episode of This American Life about counting cards at casinos:

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/466/blackjack

@bkuhn both of them mention how tedious and exhausting playing blackjack for hours is. Counting cards requires doing a lot of arithmetic in your head and paying close attention to the table.

I think of poker as a much more intellectually stimulating game. You have to spend a lot more effort getting to know your opponents. It's much more about people than blackjack is.

My hypothesis is that, for all of its faults, playing pro poker is more fun and engaging than playing pro blackjack. True?

@evan I assume "never" goes under "4 yrs +" ?

@evan I haven't been to a casino since COVID started, and even before that I'd dialled back to maybe twice a year because it wasn't as much fun going to play poker without my Dad after he passed.

@LinuxAndYarn ️

Interesting poll results. I think @maj and I went to the Montreal Casino a few years back for our anniversary, and I'm sure we did a little gambling (although the horse racing machine I love had been transferred to another Quebec casino ). So, I'm going to say... 3 years.

@maj I also played a crapload of card games in RDR1 and RDR2.

@_L1vY_ yes!

@hellomiakoda I don't usually judge, so whatever works for you.