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Di Piero Bosio
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  4. I saw something disturbing this morning.

I saw something disturbing this morning.

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scamspamfakesender
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  • Stefano Marinelliundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
    Stefano Marinelliundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
    Stefano Marinelli
    scritto su ultima modifica di
    #1

    I saw something disturbing this morning.
    One of my clients showed me an email. They use Gmail for their emails (on their own domain) and download them locally.
    The email officially came from their company president, giving the purchasing department orders to immediately pay an invoice of around €20,000 to a new supplier in the UK. It included all the details and had the invoice attached as a PDF.

    The worrying part is that the style and tone of the writing were exactly like their president's. However, the sender's address, while using the correct name, was a generic Gmail account. This immediately raised a red flag for the purchasing department, and they didn't fall for it. It was also easy for them to check because the president was in their office at that very moment.

    Looking at the sender's address, it would have been simple for anyone to figure out what was happening, but many people don't.
    The accuracy with which they (likely using an LLM) recreated the president's writing style is truly concerning.

    #Scam #Spam #FakeSender

    Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:undefined Nick 'The Viking'undefined Nickundefined xinquundefined xenotarundefined 7 Risposte Ultima Risposta
    2
    • rag. Gustavino Bevilacquaundefined rag. Gustavino Bevilacqua ha condiviso questa discussione
    • Stefano Marinelliundefined Stefano Marinelli

      I saw something disturbing this morning.
      One of my clients showed me an email. They use Gmail for their emails (on their own domain) and download them locally.
      The email officially came from their company president, giving the purchasing department orders to immediately pay an invoice of around €20,000 to a new supplier in the UK. It included all the details and had the invoice attached as a PDF.

      The worrying part is that the style and tone of the writing were exactly like their president's. However, the sender's address, while using the correct name, was a generic Gmail account. This immediately raised a red flag for the purchasing department, and they didn't fall for it. It was also easy for them to check because the president was in their office at that very moment.

      Looking at the sender's address, it would have been simple for anyone to figure out what was happening, but many people don't.
      The accuracy with which they (likely using an LLM) recreated the president's writing style is truly concerning.

      #Scam #Spam #FakeSender

      Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:undefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
      Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:undefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
      Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:
      scritto su ultima modifica di
      #2

      @stefano That's only dangerous if a potential victim has 20k spare change laying around 😆

      Stefano Marinelliundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
      • Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:undefined Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:

        @stefano That's only dangerous if a potential victim has 20k spare change laying around 😆

        Stefano Marinelliundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
        Stefano Marinelliundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
        Stefano Marinelli
        scritto su ultima modifica di
        #3

        @ricardo unfortunately, amounts like those are in their budgets, so they could pay them

        Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:undefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
        • Oblomovundefined Oblomov ha condiviso questa discussione
        • Stefano Marinelliundefined Stefano Marinelli

          I saw something disturbing this morning.
          One of my clients showed me an email. They use Gmail for their emails (on their own domain) and download them locally.
          The email officially came from their company president, giving the purchasing department orders to immediately pay an invoice of around €20,000 to a new supplier in the UK. It included all the details and had the invoice attached as a PDF.

          The worrying part is that the style and tone of the writing were exactly like their president's. However, the sender's address, while using the correct name, was a generic Gmail account. This immediately raised a red flag for the purchasing department, and they didn't fall for it. It was also easy for them to check because the president was in their office at that very moment.

          Looking at the sender's address, it would have been simple for anyone to figure out what was happening, but many people don't.
          The accuracy with which they (likely using an LLM) recreated the president's writing style is truly concerning.

          #Scam #Spam #FakeSender

          Nick 'The Viking'undefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
          Nick 'The Viking'undefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
          Nick 'The Viking'
          scritto su ultima modifica di
          #4

          @stefano

          I wonder how the scammers get samples of the president's emails to use?

          Stefano Marinelliundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
          • Stefano Marinelliundefined Stefano Marinelli

            @ricardo unfortunately, amounts like those are in their budgets, so they could pay them

            Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:undefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
            Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:undefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
            Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:
            scritto su ultima modifica di
            #5

            @stefano All jokes aside, wouldn’t a proper accounting department question an unscheduled or unbudgeted expense just because the invoice says "pay now", specially without any warning? 🤔

            Stefano Marinelliundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
            • Stefano Marinelliundefined Stefano Marinelli

              I saw something disturbing this morning.
              One of my clients showed me an email. They use Gmail for their emails (on their own domain) and download them locally.
              The email officially came from their company president, giving the purchasing department orders to immediately pay an invoice of around €20,000 to a new supplier in the UK. It included all the details and had the invoice attached as a PDF.

              The worrying part is that the style and tone of the writing were exactly like their president's. However, the sender's address, while using the correct name, was a generic Gmail account. This immediately raised a red flag for the purchasing department, and they didn't fall for it. It was also easy for them to check because the president was in their office at that very moment.

              Looking at the sender's address, it would have been simple for anyone to figure out what was happening, but many people don't.
              The accuracy with which they (likely using an LLM) recreated the president's writing style is truly concerning.

              #Scam #Spam #FakeSender

              Nickundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
              Nickundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
              Nick
              scritto su ultima modifica di
              #6
              Stefano Marinelli I hope that they have learnt that a single email should not be enough to authorise a payment
              Stefano Marinelliundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
              • Stefano Marinelliundefined Stefano Marinelli

                I saw something disturbing this morning.
                One of my clients showed me an email. They use Gmail for their emails (on their own domain) and download them locally.
                The email officially came from their company president, giving the purchasing department orders to immediately pay an invoice of around €20,000 to a new supplier in the UK. It included all the details and had the invoice attached as a PDF.

                The worrying part is that the style and tone of the writing were exactly like their president's. However, the sender's address, while using the correct name, was a generic Gmail account. This immediately raised a red flag for the purchasing department, and they didn't fall for it. It was also easy for them to check because the president was in their office at that very moment.

                Looking at the sender's address, it would have been simple for anyone to figure out what was happening, but many people don't.
                The accuracy with which they (likely using an LLM) recreated the president's writing style is truly concerning.

                #Scam #Spam #FakeSender

                xinquundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                xinquundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                xinqu
                scritto su ultima modifica di xinqu@mastodon.bsd.cafe
                #7

                @stefano I'm frustrated because a solution to this problem exists for decades - its name is #PGP. Also it has it's disadvantages, problems and is of course not bullet proof, I wonder why nobody was able to design a GUI that is usable for most users with a few hours of training. You only need to understand 5 % of PGP to be able to use it.

                I think convenience and lack of interest (until it's too late) are the main obstacles.

                1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                • Nickundefined Nick
                  Stefano Marinelli I hope that they have learnt that a single email should not be enough to authorise a payment
                  Stefano Marinelliundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                  Stefano Marinelliundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                  Stefano Marinelli
                  scritto su ultima modifica di
                  #8

                  @nick no, they have strict procedures for this. But another company I know fell in the trap (anyway, I'm not surprised)

                  1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                  • Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:undefined Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:

                    @stefano All jokes aside, wouldn’t a proper accounting department question an unscheduled or unbudgeted expense just because the invoice says "pay now", specially without any warning? 🤔

                    Stefano Marinelliundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                    Stefano Marinelliundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                    Stefano Marinelli
                    scritto su ultima modifica di
                    #9

                    @ricardo this one doesn't - but another I know did it. And lost 18000 euros.
                    And they refused a new server because "hey, 1800 euros are too much for a refurbished Dell server"

                    Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:undefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                    • Nick 'The Viking'undefined Nick 'The Viking'

                      @stefano

                      I wonder how the scammers get samples of the president's emails to use?

                      Stefano Marinelliundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                      Stefano Marinelliundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                      Stefano Marinelli
                      scritto su ultima modifica di
                      #10

                      @nlarson830 The president is active as he's talking at conferences, etc. I've tested and the LLMs are aware of this person and his style.

                      1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                      • Stefano Marinelliundefined Stefano Marinelli

                        I saw something disturbing this morning.
                        One of my clients showed me an email. They use Gmail for their emails (on their own domain) and download them locally.
                        The email officially came from their company president, giving the purchasing department orders to immediately pay an invoice of around €20,000 to a new supplier in the UK. It included all the details and had the invoice attached as a PDF.

                        The worrying part is that the style and tone of the writing were exactly like their president's. However, the sender's address, while using the correct name, was a generic Gmail account. This immediately raised a red flag for the purchasing department, and they didn't fall for it. It was also easy for them to check because the president was in their office at that very moment.

                        Looking at the sender's address, it would have been simple for anyone to figure out what was happening, but many people don't.
                        The accuracy with which they (likely using an LLM) recreated the president's writing style is truly concerning.

                        #Scam #Spam #FakeSender

                        xenotarundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                        xenotarundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                        xenotar
                        scritto su ultima modifica di xenotar@mastodon.bsd.cafe
                        #11

                        @stefano PGP signing is 34 y.o. with several open source implementations that make it easy to sign and to verify email messages. I will never understand why business avoid it

                        1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                        • Stefano Marinelliundefined Stefano Marinelli

                          @ricardo this one doesn't - but another I know did it. And lost 18000 euros.
                          And they refused a new server because "hey, 1800 euros are too much for a refurbished Dell server"

                          Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:undefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                          Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:undefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                          Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:
                          scritto su ultima modifica di
                          #12

                          @stefano

                          Stefano Marinelliundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                          • Stefano Marinelliundefined Stefano Marinelli

                            I saw something disturbing this morning.
                            One of my clients showed me an email. They use Gmail for their emails (on their own domain) and download them locally.
                            The email officially came from their company president, giving the purchasing department orders to immediately pay an invoice of around €20,000 to a new supplier in the UK. It included all the details and had the invoice attached as a PDF.

                            The worrying part is that the style and tone of the writing were exactly like their president's. However, the sender's address, while using the correct name, was a generic Gmail account. This immediately raised a red flag for the purchasing department, and they didn't fall for it. It was also easy for them to check because the president was in their office at that very moment.

                            Looking at the sender's address, it would have been simple for anyone to figure out what was happening, but many people don't.
                            The accuracy with which they (likely using an LLM) recreated the president's writing style is truly concerning.

                            #Scam #Spam #FakeSender

                            Joel Carnat ♑ 🤪undefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                            Joel Carnat ♑ 🤪undefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                            Joel Carnat ♑ 🤪
                            scritto su ultima modifica di
                            #13

                            @stefano I’ve heard that they also do this through phone call, using AI mimicking voices.

                            Tim Chaseundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                            • Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:undefined Ricardo Martín :bsdhead:

                              @stefano

                              Stefano Marinelliundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                              Stefano Marinelliundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                              Stefano Marinelli
                              scritto su ultima modifica di
                              #14

                              @ricardo yes. life can be hard, at times

                              1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                              • Joel Carnat ♑ 🤪undefined Joel Carnat ♑ 🤪

                                @stefano I’ve heard that they also do this through phone call, using AI mimicking voices.

                                Tim Chaseundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                Tim Chaseundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                Tim Chase
                                scritto su ultima modifica di
                                #15

                                @joel

                                I'd considered making a mini CLI-oriented podcast but this concern was part of why I have very little audio of my voice online.

                                @stefano

                                Joel Carnat ♑ 🤪undefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                                • Tim Chaseundefined Tim Chase

                                  @joel

                                  I'd considered making a mini CLI-oriented podcast but this concern was part of why I have very little audio of my voice online.

                                  @stefano

                                  Joel Carnat ♑ 🤪undefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                  Joel Carnat ♑ 🤪undefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                  Joel Carnat ♑ 🤪
                                  scritto su ultima modifica di
                                  #16

                                  @gumnos @stefano I don’t know how many samples would be required to initialize the "you" model. But given that a single photo can be used to achieve not that bad deepfake, this could be only a few minutes 😕

                                  Stefano Marinelliundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                                  • Joel Carnat ♑ 🤪undefined Joel Carnat ♑ 🤪

                                    @gumnos @stefano I don’t know how many samples would be required to initialize the "you" model. But given that a single photo can be used to achieve not that bad deepfake, this could be only a few minutes 😕

                                    Stefano Marinelliundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                    Stefano Marinelliundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                    Stefano Marinelli
                                    scritto su ultima modifica di
                                    #17

                                    @joel @gumnos Someone told me they use the spam calls (or the unwanted calls) to train models with your voice, if needed.

                                    chesheerundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                                    • Stefano Marinelliundefined Stefano Marinelli

                                      @joel @gumnos Someone told me they use the spam calls (or the unwanted calls) to train models with your voice, if needed.

                                      chesheerundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                      chesheerundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                      chesheer
                                      scritto su ultima modifica di
                                      #18

                                      @stefano This is true. Quite popular fraud scheme in my country (and actually post-Soviet space). So they collect enough samples of your voice to train AI, and then call your relatives asking to transfer money somewhere ASAP. That's one of the schemes.

                                      Stefano Marinelliundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                                      • chesheerundefined chesheer

                                        @stefano This is true. Quite popular fraud scheme in my country (and actually post-Soviet space). So they collect enough samples of your voice to train AI, and then call your relatives asking to transfer money somewhere ASAP. That's one of the schemes.

                                        Stefano Marinelliundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                        Stefano Marinelliundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                        Stefano Marinelli
                                        scritto su ultima modifica di
                                        #19

                                        @chesheer Scary!

                                        1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                                        • Stefano Marinelliundefined Stefano Marinelli

                                          I saw something disturbing this morning.
                                          One of my clients showed me an email. They use Gmail for their emails (on their own domain) and download them locally.
                                          The email officially came from their company president, giving the purchasing department orders to immediately pay an invoice of around €20,000 to a new supplier in the UK. It included all the details and had the invoice attached as a PDF.

                                          The worrying part is that the style and tone of the writing were exactly like their president's. However, the sender's address, while using the correct name, was a generic Gmail account. This immediately raised a red flag for the purchasing department, and they didn't fall for it. It was also easy for them to check because the president was in their office at that very moment.

                                          Looking at the sender's address, it would have been simple for anyone to figure out what was happening, but many people don't.
                                          The accuracy with which they (likely using an LLM) recreated the president's writing style is truly concerning.

                                          #Scam #Spam #FakeSender

                                          Gabe Saltarundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                          Gabe Saltarundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                          Gabe Saltar
                                          scritto su ultima modifica di
                                          #20

                                          @stefano As embarrassing as it may be, I once was scammed by someone pretending to be the owner of the company where I worked. I lost approximately $1,000

                                          However, I did learn my lesson and checking the email address of any suspicious email is the first thing I do now

                                          Stefano Marinelliundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
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