Look, EU, it is difficult to take you seriously when you forced all this cookie notification bullshit on us.
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@javier every website on the world is involved
@codinghorror @javier Websites that don't use cookies are not involved. Neither are websites that only use cookies that are _required_ for the website to function, e.g. session tokens.
It's only when you'd like to use cookies to track users and deliver personalized ads that you have to deal with this stuff.
It's a choice.
Most websites simply don't choose the privacy-friendly option.
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Look, EU, it is difficult to take you seriously when you forced all this cookie notification bullshit on us. That feature a) should not exist and b) if it did, should be a BROWSER feature not "every website in the entire world now has to bother everyone forever about this stupid thing" https://blog.codinghorror.com/breaking-the-webs-cookie-jar/
True, but my point remains. This shitty experience we're collectively having here this isn't "the EU forcing cookie notification on people", it's "the malicious compliance of companies that profit from user tracking."
Every company that shows you an cookie popup has made the choice to put a few fractions of pennies of possible future profit ahead of your experience.
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@dalias not true. It is a LEGAL REQUIREMENT. Or you will be sued. By lawyers. And money.
@codinghorror @dalias German here: the gist of GDPR is: people must know when someone collects personal data.
You can perfectly live without a cookie banner if you don't set one for arbitrary visitors. That was the intended result. But reality instead invented this UX nightmare, because we can't have nice things.
For me it just shows how fucked up today's web actually is.
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@codinghorror @dalias German here: the gist of GDPR is: people must know when someone collects personal data.
You can perfectly live without a cookie banner if you don't set one for arbitrary visitors. That was the intended result. But reality instead invented this UX nightmare, because we can't have nice things.
For me it just shows how fucked up today's web actually is.
@Gottox this. Ubiquitous cookie banners are straight up malicious compliance by the ad industry @codinghorror @dalias
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@codinghorror @dalias German here: the gist of GDPR is: people must know when someone collects personal data.
You can perfectly live without a cookie banner if you don't set one for arbitrary visitors. That was the intended result. But reality instead invented this UX nightmare, because we can't have nice things.
For me it just shows how fucked up today's web actually is.
@Gottox @codinghorror @dalias also, by default a website complies with GDPR.
The choices by those in charge (collecting ad revenue or choosing a harmful technical library) is what then makes a website require needing consent.
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Look, EU, it is difficult to take you seriously when you forced all this cookie notification bullshit on us. That feature a) should not exist and b) if it did, should be a BROWSER feature not "every website in the entire world now has to bother everyone forever about this stupid thing" https://blog.codinghorror.com/breaking-the-webs-cookie-jar/
@codinghorror Look, USA, your utter failure to protect citizens’ privacy makes it difficult to take you…*checks notes*…did not in fact make the list of the top 100 reasons why we can’t take you seriously right now
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Look, EU, it is difficult to take you seriously when you forced all this cookie notification bullshit on us. That feature a) should not exist and b) if it did, should be a BROWSER feature not "every website in the entire world now has to bother everyone forever about this stupid thing" https://blog.codinghorror.com/breaking-the-webs-cookie-jar/
@codinghorror That the EU 'forced' cookie banners is flat-out false. It was a *choice* for sites like yours to persist in the intensive collection of data about your users to feed in to the surveillance capitalism machine. As genuinely admirable as your philanthropy is, it was built on this.
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Look, EU, it is difficult to take you seriously when you forced all this cookie notification bullshit on us. That feature a) should not exist and b) if it did, should be a BROWSER feature not "every website in the entire world now has to bother everyone forever about this stupid thing" https://blog.codinghorror.com/breaking-the-webs-cookie-jar/
@codinghorror Don’t blame the EU. Respect
DNT: 1 -
undefined Oblomov ha condiviso questa discussione
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@codinghorror That the EU 'forced' cookie banners is flat-out false. It was a *choice* for sites like yours to persist in the intensive collection of data about your users to feed in to the surveillance capitalism machine. As genuinely admirable as your philanthropy is, it was built on this.
@codinghorror As for why this isn't a browser feature, it was and is! It is a *choice* by your industry to disregard this, by ignoring DNT and not implementing GPC in major browsers. Did your site honour DNT? Does it honour GPC in places where it is not legally obliged to?
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Reference/Headers/DNT
https://globalprivacycontrol.org/ -
@codinghorror That's a myth perpetrated by adtech industry. There is no EU obligation to spam cookie notices. There's an obligation not to track without explicit consent, and everyone illegally uses the cookie nag popups as a basis for claiming consent (which it's not). A legitimate, non malicious site has no need for cookie nags. Ever.
@dalias @codinghorror that’s all very nice in theory, but it was always going to end up with what we have, due to the way this regulation was brought in. With having to incessantly click Accept on every single website out there. Only a small fraction of people care to do anything else. Thus reducing the experience for almost everyone and annoying millions every day. The cookies are not just used for ads, but every analytics tool out there. Key to running sites.
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Look, EU, it is difficult to take you seriously when you forced all this cookie notification bullshit on us. That feature a) should not exist and b) if it did, should be a BROWSER feature not "every website in the entire world now has to bother everyone forever about this stupid thing" https://blog.codinghorror.com/breaking-the-webs-cookie-jar/
@codinghorror GDPR never mandated cookie banners. GDPR mandates user consent. There was a browser feature for that: the DNT HTTP header. That header was deprecated because nobody respected it. It was just easier to enforce user consent through cookie banners and dark patterns.
Nothing here is EU's fault. You want a better option? Campaign for a legislation to enforce the website to respect DNT.
Or… Just don't track?
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@dalias @codinghorror that’s all very nice in theory, but it was always going to end up with what we have, due to the way this regulation was brought in. With having to incessantly click Accept on every single website out there. Only a small fraction of people care to do anything else. Thus reducing the experience for almost everyone and annoying millions every day. The cookies are not just used for ads, but every analytics tool out there. Key to running sites.
@Setok @dalias @codinghorror Not if you do analytics based on your own web server logs. You only need consent if you use a data guzzling third party analytics tool.
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@Setok @dalias @codinghorror Not if you do analytics based on your own web server logs. You only need consent if you use a data guzzling third party analytics tool.
@mkoek @dalias @codinghorror tell that to the thousands of startups desperately trying to balance with a billion other things they're trying to do. That's just not a practical suggestion when the third party analytics are much faster to set up, better understood, and generally superior too than some self-hosted thing cobbled together.
As mentioned, the reality we are in today with cookie popups everywhere was 100% predictable and the regulation was thus poorly considered.
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@mkoek @dalias @codinghorror tell that to the thousands of startups desperately trying to balance with a billion other things they're trying to do. That's just not a practical suggestion when the third party analytics are much faster to set up, better understood, and generally superior too than some self-hosted thing cobbled together.
As mentioned, the reality we are in today with cookie popups everywhere was 100% predictable and the regulation was thus poorly considered.
@Setok @dalias @codinghorror I would not advise startups to behave unethically because it’s easier, no. In fact, shouldn’t it be an eye opener that a law that requires people to do the right thing (don’t track people without consent) is viewed as wrong simply because it takes a tiny bite out of the ability to move fast and break things?
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@Setok @dalias @codinghorror I would not advise startups to behave unethically because it’s easier, no. In fact, shouldn’t it be an eye opener that a law that requires people to do the right thing (don’t track people without consent) is viewed as wrong simply because it takes a tiny bite out of the ability to move fast and break things?
@mkoek @dalias @codinghorror frankly, yes. The law hasn’t changed anything of substance. Companies still use the same analytics tools. But now users are constantly nagged at, and companies have increased costs and slower go to market times as they need to faff with these things.
Perfect example of regulation that is completely misguided, and is a nuisance to almost everyone, bar a few people on Mastodon. Wrong approach.
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@codinghorror GDPR never mandated cookie banners. GDPR mandates user consent. There was a browser feature for that: the DNT HTTP header. That header was deprecated because nobody respected it. It was just easier to enforce user consent through cookie banners and dark patterns.
Nothing here is EU's fault. You want a better option? Campaign for a legislation to enforce the website to respect DNT.
Or… Just don't track?
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@mkoek @dalias @codinghorror frankly, yes. The law hasn’t changed anything of substance. Companies still use the same analytics tools. But now users are constantly nagged at, and companies have increased costs and slower go to market times as they need to faff with these things.
Perfect example of regulation that is completely misguided, and is a nuisance to almost everyone, bar a few people on Mastodon. Wrong approach.
@Setok @dalias @codinghorror it hasn’t changed anything because it’s not enforced (well almost)
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@Setok @dalias @codinghorror it hasn’t changed anything because it’s not enforced (well almost)
@mkoek @Setok @dalias it hasn’t changed anything because it does not address root causes. Users want everything for free, forever, and content creators want to make money to feed themselves and their families. Until we resolve THAT, we will be stuck in endless combat between these two opposing forces. And the money is going to find a way to inevitably win because it has to. You have to make a living somehow. Free everything is great and all but it is never ever ever gonna be “free.”
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@mkoek @Setok @dalias it hasn’t changed anything because it does not address root causes. Users want everything for free, forever, and content creators want to make money to feed themselves and their families. Until we resolve THAT, we will be stuck in endless combat between these two opposing forces. And the money is going to find a way to inevitably win because it has to. You have to make a living somehow. Free everything is great and all but it is never ever ever gonna be “free.”
@codinghorror @mkoek @Setok @dalias money doesnt have to win, post scarcity is achievable but we have to shed the moral requirement that people must “work” to be allowed an existence of comfort
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@mkoek @Setok @dalias it hasn’t changed anything because it does not address root causes. Users want everything for free, forever, and content creators want to make money to feed themselves and their families. Until we resolve THAT, we will be stuck in endless combat between these two opposing forces. And the money is going to find a way to inevitably win because it has to. You have to make a living somehow. Free everything is great and all but it is never ever ever gonna be “free.”
@codinghorror @Setok @dalias I am actually fine with Facebook charging €6 (iirc) for a privacy-friendly account. Also fine with the new kind of cookie banners on some newspaper websites that say up front that either they track you, or you pay for access. Just be honest about it. It’s the sneaky profile building that I totally agree with being illegal.
