@mcc @valpackett community organizing around *what*? i do not think you can force projects to implement wayland features they find distasteful for whatever reason.

@ariadne @mcc @valpackett it's not even just a matter of taste, a lot of wayland features are to support stuff that has zero relevance to desktop.

@dysfun @mcc @valpackett look i am trying to talk about the foot fetish DE that everyone complains about not implementing XYZ protocol extension every week

@mcc @gfxstrand @ariadne Oh absolutely, that was something that really bothered me for the last few years. The reason many apps are blurry under Wayland was that they were still using X11, it wasn't because of Wayland, it was because of X11. It's shameful how long so many important apps took to get native, but SDL apps, Chrome, Firefox, everything that uses GTK 3 or 4 or modern QT, and a whole bunch of other stuff look crisp in their current versions. There are still a few Electron apps that use XWayland, but if you had trouble with blurry apps under something like Ubuntu 24.04 or earlier, I'd recommend trying the latest non-LTS release, where apps have been compiled against libraries that understand Wayland and get its fractional scaling right. For some apps, like VSCode, a few environment variables made it look good for a long time now, but vendors didn't set them as defaults.

@ariadne @mcc @valpackett i have limited sympathy for the foot fetish DE, they have pushed themselves down the path of an increasingly difficult life despite the same companies being responsible as for the other stuff.

@ariadne @valpackett As a GNOME user I very, very badly have to hope that it will, someday, be possible to force the GNOME project to do things or else I'm never going to have usable software

@mcc @valpackett tbh GNOME is gonna GNOME. i moved to xfce years ago and then KDE. sometimes when there is an impedance mismatch it’s worth moving on…

@DarcMoughty Yup! "Why is my app blurry? This never happened under X11!" Yeah, dude, that's because X11 never had frame scaling. Like, have you seen the attempts at doing scaling with X11?!?

@mcc @ariadne

@gfxstrand @DarcMoughty @ariadne Yes. There is a method of doing DPI upscaling in X11. My understanding is this method is somewhat ad hoc, but it works. I have a large number of applications on my linux system, mostly but not exclusively electron based, which can correctly and attractively do DPI upscaling when I run in X11, but which are blurry when run in the GNOME Wayland server.

@gfxstrand @DarcMoughty @ariadne Now, I really want to stress I don't want to be using X11. If I wanted to be using X11, I would be using X11, and I would not be complaining about Wayland. But X11 did solve this problem, and Wayland is *inconsistently* compatible with that solution depending on what program manages your app switcher. From an end user perspective, and ignoring all maintainer or distribution concerns, that is very frustrating.