@ryan @chris

maybe you didn't grow up very different from most of the people around you in a society that generally defined people like you as weird and whose history reinforced that and get looked at funny and called names and heard about people like yourself getting hurt and maybe threatened or worse yourself.

consider the way some react to being called fascist or Nazi and then add all that.

@ryan @chris

have you considered what life would feel like right now if you actually always thought you were in the wrong sexed body?

@wjmaggos @chris No, but I can relate to the struggle.

I actually always thought that I should grow up in a wealthy family, with a trust fund so I wouldn't have to work. I actually always thought I should have a 13" penis and be married to a porn star. I actually always thought that people around me should be rational and accept reality.

All of those things are true in my fantasies. Unfortunately, I live in the real world where they're not.

@ryan @chris @wjmaggos except the 13" penis right? I'd claim that

@admin

Nah, I'm too white. It's only 11.5"

@chris @wjmaggos

@ryan @wjmaggos @admin if that's based on the audacity that most men list their heights on dating profiles you know literally 5'8 guys saying that they're six feet I believe that I believe that you have a 11 or 13 inch penis. As someone who is truly 6'3 there are a million Ferraris and Lamborghinis that I will never fit into there are a million freaking miatas that I'll never fit into I'll never be happy in a coach class seat I'll never fit in the backseat well of a taxi without moving the seat

@chris @ryan @admin

it would suck more to be black in the Jim Crow south than it does today. I can imagine a future where it sucks less to feel trans than it does today. of course sometimes we also need to compromise like re female sports.

I think that depending on your IRL experience, depending on how public one is here and I'll note that people are much less public on freeze peach servers than most of fedi and other social media, harassment amount and how bad it is differs.

@wjmaggos @chris @admin

Heavily moderated servers (and corporate social media) buy the illusion of civility at the cost of conformity of thought. If you are okay with having your thoughts suppressed, or if you already think in lockstep with the censors, you're probably fine with that. But if you're an independent thinker, that kind of thought-censorship is infinitely worse than enduring a few f-bombs.

(I say "illusion of civility" because many admins of heavily-moderated instances are totally cool with any level of hate, as long as it's directed at the "right" people)

@ryan @chris @admin

we can find a better middle ground. like having some government but not too much government. we do it IRL all the time. and it's not a few F bombs but harassment of some people from some groups more than others. and the proof that it's a problem is how few people on freeze peach servers are anonymous, even compared to fedi servers with lots of tech privacy obsessives.

I agree re your last paragraph. it's unfair but you can see how it keeps normie conservatives off bluesky.

@wjmaggos @chris

Possible tangent, but one problem I see with any of the moderation strategies is that the definition of the word "harassment" is far too subjective.

As far as I understand, something is harassment if the reader feels harassed by it. A speaker has no control over what the reader feels, and therefore cannot with any certainty avoid "harassing" anyone who could possibly see the message.

This leads to a strong chilling effect on speech, which is easy to see in practice in any space with a strict "no harassment" policy. Again, you might be okay with that, but it's hardly an open marketplace of ideas.

If we're going to set rules, they need to be more prescriptive and less reactive.

@ryan @chris

I agree that any rules will lead to having to decide what violates those rules. thus SCOTUS. even spam is debated when somebody mentions their business etc.

we don't let people harass others IRL. we figure it out. "die slur" is pretty obvious but yes, there will be subjectivity. if I say something at a public forum IRL and somebody explains why they think I'm wrong and ends with "you fucking retard", wouldn't most of us recognize what was helpful and what wasn't?

@wjmaggos @ryan it's pretty easy to want to block everyone who resorts to ad hominems, though, no? If they call you retard once, they'll call you it every time so might as well block.

@ryan @chris

and let me add, not having a harassment policy, leading to more harassment, is also chilling on speech.

people will use other services where they feel more comfortable posting their pics, real name, something about what they did locally and that they attended a bat mitzvah or gay marriage.

isn't this obvious from the other perspective re conservatives on bluesky?

it all needs to be more inviting for everyone everywhere.

@chris @ryan

the issue isn't blocking that account, like it isn't blocking a known email spam email address etc. that's easy.

it's knowing that using this service means you will have to constantly block assholes, while you can go somewhere else and not deal with that cause they have policies and enforcement. most people, especially the most targeted, will just go somewhere else.

maybe if you can't get the convo there that you get here, you'd deal with it. but I want convo with everyone.